Tuesday 24 June 2014

Malignant Narcissists Groom Their Prey For Maximum Exploitation



I like this image of the Big Bad Wolf because it is right on point with what the malignant narcissist predator is all about. The Wolf is dangling a bare bone while gripping a fork. This is exactly what the MN predator does; they toss their prey a “meatless” bone to lure them in, so THEY can feed. The bone may as well be rubber because what the malignant narcissist uses to bait the victim is worthless, it’s FAKE, there’s no substance to it, it’s all on the level of pretense, and it’s called “Grooming” - a predatory act of maneuvering prey into a trap.
I came across a description of “Grooming” on Out of the Fog and was amazed at how perfectly it describes the predation of malignant narcissist/psychopath sister AND MN mother on my N dad. But before we get to the description, let me begin with my experiences of being “groomed” by a narcissist.

Done. I have none. Grooming doesn’t work on me. Why? Probably because I was raised in captivity with three narcissists, I was out numbered, and I had to carefully study how the eco-system of the narc jungle functions in order to survive. If I fell prey to manipulation tactics such as grooming, I would have been chewed-up and spat out before I reached my teens.  
I recall one New Year’s Eve, I was home watching TV, and at the stroke of midnight malignant narcissist sister and her friend grabbed a bunch of pots and pans from the kitchen and went out onto the street and banged the living shit out of them. When malignant narcissist mother discovered that her pots and pans were dented and chipped she was furious. MN sister couldn’t pin this one on me because my parents came home while she was making a racket throughout the neighborhood and they caught her walk through the door pot handed. What happened next was something my 15 year old self put in the narcissist behavioral data bank.

Initially MN mother became angry at MN sister and bitched and moaned about her precious pots and pans, but that wasn’t the end of it. The next day, MN mother did some role reversing and tried to employ a divide and conquer technique. She “acted” as if my sister was invisible and went into full-on grooming/engulf mode with ME. Normally she didn’t acknowledge my existence, but now she was doing the human version of a picking through my hair. Because this was so out of character for her, I immediately recognized that she was working an angle – all this doting was to make my sister jealous. I was merely a pawn in her sick little game. It was almost laughable how she timed things. For example, MN sister would walk by, or enter the room I was in, and like magic, MN mother would appear and ask me in a sickly syrupy voice if I needed anything. This was quite a departure from her evil glares, hissing and threats to annihilate me. It was truly cringe worthy. Eventually MN mother realized I wasn’t taking the bait and she defaulted to her regular MN mother position – ignoring, neglectful, resentful.

saw the hypocrisy and bizarre connections in MN mother’s actions. MN sister could bash me all she wanted and no one would care, but heaven forbid MN sister bash-up something of value, like a pot or a pan, then MN mother was going to make her pay by lavishing me (the human version of the dented object) with all kinds of contrived attention. From what I remember, that was the only time MN sister ever received anything resembling “punishment” but it had no effect on her, especially since MN mother’s show closed after only one performance.  
I learned at a young age not to trust smooth talking hustler types. I learned to experience effusiveness as off-putting. I have a few other experiences in life with narcissists who tried to lure me in this manner and failed miserably, BUT I have many many more experiences with narcissists who were critical, indifferent, neglectful, completely self-absorbed and made me feel “not good enough” who succeeded with me. 



Grooming is an extremely predatory act, so it’s the very dangerous among us (the evil) who employ this tactic. Both my malignant narcissist mother and malignant narcissist sister are predators: they go out of their way to find vulnerable prey to exploit/feed on. My father is a narcissist, bordering on malignant, but he is not a predator. In fact, my father has been preyed on repeatedly by malignant narcissist women. If you think all narcissists are immune to the predatory tactics of highly malignant narcissists, think again. Being a narcissist with an addiction to narc supply is a big button.
In his book Without Conscience, The Disturbing World Of The Psychopaths Among us, Dr. Robert. D. Hare describes how these predators seek out our buttons to press.

If you have any weak spots in your psychological makeup, a psychopath is sure to find and exploit them, leaving you hurt and bewildered. The examples below illustrate the uncanny ability of psychopaths to detect our vulnerabilities and to push our buttons.  
In an interview, one of our psychopaths, a con artist, said candidly, “When I’m on the job the first thing I do is I size you up. I look for an angle, an edge, figure out what you need and give it to you. Then it’s pay-back time, with interest. I tighten the screws.” 
The callous use of the lonely is a trademark of psychopaths. Psychopaths have no hesitation in making use of people’s need to find a purpose in their lives, or in preying on the confused, the frail, and the helpless.
One of our subject carefully studied newspaper obituaries, looking for elderly people who had just lost a spouse and who had no remaining family members. In one case, posing as a “grief counselor,” he persuaded a seventy-year-old widow to give him power of attorney over her affairs. His scheme fell apart only because an alert church minister became suspicious, checked up on the impostor, and learned that he was a convicted swindler out on parole. “She was lonely, and I was attempting to bring some joy into her life,” said our subject.

Malignant narcissist mother has been mentoring MN sister in the black art of predation her entire life. I can just imagine the dialogue during one of her “grooming” coaching sessions. MN mother blows her whistles, gets up in MN sister’s face and says firmly, “Make sure you are a part of your father’s life, especially as he gets older. You need to stay close to him because you never know who will try and take advantage of him.”
Translation: “Take advantage of your father’s vulnerabilities in old age. Make him dependent on you, take away his freedom, isolate him, control his mind and bleed him dry before he dies.”

The years MN sister has spent plotting, scheming and “grooming” N father have all been leading up to that moment where she gains absolute power and control over him – that time has come. And I’m convinced MN mother and MN sister view enslaving N father and draining the life out of him as justified as opposed to murdering him. Even in the animal kingdom the prey doesn’t need to be dead to be fed on. 

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Outwardly it would appear that MN sister is succeeding at her assignment. She obtained POWER of attorney over N father, shoved him in a tiny assisted living home, and took everything he had away from him, including his freedom and his dignity. She’s squeezed him hollow and filled him with herself. Every aspect of his life is under MN sister’s control. She watches, monitors, intercepts and blocks his communication and has him so brainwashed and psychologically feeble that he needs her to tell him what to do.

MN mother must be gloating. It’s been her life work to train her malignant daughter to imprison her father and exploit him. My parents have been divorced for 30 years, but MN mother is still out to dominate N father and control him till his last dying day. The fact that MN sister is carrying out her will is of no consequence – they (MN mother and MN sister) are one person. MN mother uses MN daughter to abuse N father, MN sister uses N father to abuse normal sister (me). I’ve watched with fascination as history has repeated itself. The same shit that went down at the end of my Narcissist parent’s marriage, is the same shit that is going down at the end of their lives. The big shark eats the smaller shark, the smaller shark eats the smallest shark, the smallest shark eats the fish.  
What’s interesting here is this: MN mother would NEVER hand control of her life over to evil frankendaughter. No way! She knows better – she trained her vile daughter to look out for number one, and win at all costs. It’s a case of the master training the pupil, and the pupil becoming more dangerous than the master. Even though MN mother and MN sister are thick as thieves, there is NO honor among malignant narcissist thieves. They don’t trust each other, and why should they? They BOTH have a strong need for psychological and physical control over others, and they both know what the other is capable of. They are both highly skilled manipulators and predators who “groom” their prey for maximum exploitation. MN mother groomed MN sister to a life of bondage, and now MN sister has imprisoned N dad and groomed him to be a puppet on her string. 

Grooming - Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior.
Description: Grooming is an insidious predatory tactic, utilized by abusers. Grooming is practiced by Narcissists, Antisocial predators, con-artists and sexual aggressors, who target and manipulate vulnerable people for exploitation.

Child grooming is the deliberate act of establishing an emotional bond with a child, to lower the child's resistance. Child grooming can result in the minor falling victim to physical, sexual and emotional abuse, or specifically, to manipulate children into participating in slave labor, prostitution, and/or the production of child pornography.
Adult grooming is correspondent to child grooming and applies to any situation where an adult is primed to allow him or herself to be exploited or abused. While it is a common assumption that grooming is only practiced on the very young, identical emotional and psychological processes are commonly used to abuse or exploit adults, the elderly, and those with compromised mental facilities.

A predator will identify and engage a victim and work to gain the target’s trust, break down defenses, and manipulate the victim until they get whatever it is they are after.

The hallmarks of grooming are overt attention, verbal seduction (flattery / ego stroking), recruitment, physical isolation, charm, gift-giving, normalizing, gaslighting, secrecy, and threats.

  • Abusers who groom their victims often claim to have a special connection with the abused. The so-called connection might be emotional, intellectual, sexual, spiritual, or all of the above. This is often backed up by the predator echoing back part of the target's own background or story, altered to fit the groomer’s back-story, in order to confirm the connection.
  • In order to abuse or exploit another person without fear of discovery, a sexual predator or con artist will frequently condition their intended victim to keep secrets for them. When building this bond of trust, an abuser may share seemingly personal or private information, and then swear the victim to secrecy. The victim is made to believe that they are being trusted with something of value, before being asked to share something of value with his/her abuser.
  • Abusers use shared secrets to bind their victims to them. By degrees, the target is gradually lured in to revealing private information, giving up money, property or sexual favors, or permitting /engaging in inappropriate, unsafe, or illegal behaviors.
  • The victim is often drawn in to being a "co-conspirator” (also known as forced teaming) with his or her abuser.
  • Eventually, the bond of secrecy is nearly always reinforced with threats, shaming and guilt to keep the victim silent about his or her shared crimes or misdeeds.
Who are the victims of grooming? Men. Women. Children. Young adults. The middle-aged. The elderly. The lonely and the emotionally compromised. Those whose defenses are down. Anyone with soft boundaries. In short: There is no prototypical victim. Almost anyone can be vulnerable to grooming. Predators are practiced, and extremely good at what they do. Those who are not, tend to get caught. Those who get caught, tend to learn from their mistakes, and refine their techniques. You don’t have to be especially gullible to fall victim to grooming, but if you learn the signs, you can successfully identify a potential abuser, and avoid exploitation:

  • Predators work in the shadows, and have something to hide.
  • Predators claim to feel a "special connection" with their targets, even if they've only just met.
  • Predators recruit co-conspirators (forced teaming) to fight their battles and do their bidding.
  • Predators draw their victims in by sharing private information then swearing them to secrecy.
  • Predators practice divide and conquer techniques in order to manipulate others.
Examples of Grooming:

  • An individual who lures lonely or vulnerable people into a relationship in order to position themselves for monetary gain.
  • An adult in a position of authority who uses their status to entice minor children into engaging in sexual activity.
  • Anyone who manufactures a (false) bond of trust in order to extract promises or favors from another.
What it feels like:

Grooming can feel exhilarating – at first. The predator employs attentiveness, sensitivity, (false) empathy and plenty of positive reinforcement to seduce their victim. For their part, victims can be so enthralled with, or overwhelmed by the attention they are receiving; they will often overlook or ignore red flags that might alert them that the person who is showering them with that attention is somehow “off”.

Little by little, the abuser breaks through a victim’s natural defenses, gains trust, and manipulates or coerces the victim into doing his/her bidding. The victim finds themselves willingly handing over money or assets, engaging in inappropriate, illegal or morally ambiguous actives, or acting as a proxy for the abuser, fighting the abuser’s battles, and carrying out their will.
The victim often feels confusion, shame, guilt, remorse and disgust at his or her own participation. Equally powerful, is the panic that comes with the threat of being exposed for engaging these activities. There may also an overwhelming fear of losing the emotional bond that has been established with an abuser. The victim becomes trapped, depressed or despondent.

The victim becomes trapped, depressed or despondent.”
"Predators recruit co-conspirators (forced teaming) to fight their battles and do their bidding.”

“Eventually, the bond of secrecy is nearly always reinforced with threats, shaming and guilt to keep the victim silent about his or her shared crimes or misdeed.”

“Predators work in the shadows, and have something to hide.”

MN sister’s relationship with her dad is identical to his marriages to cruel, greedy, controlling, manipulative, mentally deranged women. She’s like a combination of both ex-wives on steroids. The whole thing is very creepy. What is MN sister hiding? Same thing she has always been hiding – financial exploitation, that’s the socially unacceptable crime. But what’s the more insidious crime here? Elder abuse would be the obvious answer, but that’s not it. What is MN sister really hiding? I believe it’s her twisted fixation to control, dominate, and enslave another human being. MN sister is a pervert with the same psychological mindset as a serial killer or a pedophile. Absolute power over another is MN sister's secret vice. Her monkey Lloyd, though mutually parasitic, is bound to a life of captivity, and now so is my dad.  
I have watched this horror show unfold from a distance, and everything listed in the description of grooming, I have seen play out. I have to say, things are looking pretty bleak for the narcissists, maybe not at first glance, but I believe there is something at work and it’s NOT something I have any control over.

My father has been reduced to nothing, and my sister has total power over him. He is being exploited by MN sister, her flying monkey, and his ex-wife. It’s a disturbing relationship between four disturbed individuals. Whether N father realizes it or not, he has been lured into a trap and this is the most horrific position for someone who is vulnerable to be in. But vulnerability is what makes the malignant narcissist’s fangs come out. It’s at the height of the victim’s vulnerability that the MN predator goes in for the kill and wages the final assault.

It would appear he was lured and trapped by MN sister because he’s a slave to his narcissism. He craves narcissistic supply and she provides it. He’s an addict, she’s a pusher. It may even appear that he was blinded by his narcissism. I mean, did it ever occur to him that his greedy, manipulative, evil malignant daughter who HE enabled to blatantly abuse me, and who he plotted, schemed, and conspired with to betray me, wouldn't turn around and do the same thing to him? It’s the story of the frog and the scorpion. MN sister is a dangerous predator – that’s her nature. 
After 17 years of no contact with her, there was a brief period of telephone contact and during one of our conversations she remarked, “Dad has a dark side. It’s SO easy to use the power of suggestion on him.” OK. That is partly projection, but there’s also truth in that statement. It’s the case of an evil person recognizing a “dark side” in a weaker person and exploiting it for her own gain. So is it an accident that my dad handed over his life to his evil daughter, and boarded a slow boat to hell?  

In Anna V’s article Dancing With The Devil, she had this to say about adults who enter into relationships with evil:
“Peck (author of People of The Lie) asserts that adults do not accidentally end up in close relationships with evil people. He uses the term “willing thralldom.” (note the word “enthralled” is used to describe the victim’s reaction “grooming”).

Peck relates his experience with a very disturbed (and disturbing) couple -- Sarah and Hartley. In the context of this story he states:
"We do not become partners to evil by accident. As adults we are not forced by fate to become trapped by an evil power, we set the trap ourselves." pg. 118

Referring to Hartley:
"Theoretically he could have just walked away from Sarah. But he had bound himself to her by chains of laziness and dependency, and though titularly an adult, he had settled for the child's impotence. Whenever adults not at gunpoint become victims of evil it is because they have--one way or another--made Hartley's bargain." pg. 119-120

The bargain was to settle into a type of slavery because his moral laziness and dependency was a larger part of his character than not. 
"He entered into a submissive relationship with evil precisely because he was partially evil himself." (footnote pg. 118)

Anna states that adults who enter into relationships with evil have a part of them that is “comfortable” and “at home” with the evil. She goes on to say:
“It is not always possible for someone outside a relationship to know how the two parties are mutually benefiting from the relationship. Outwardly we may conclude we are seeing two opposites. We have to avoid this kind of simplistic acceptance of outward appearances when we observe a relationship between adults who have chosen to be together and who hang together tenaciously. One person may appear to be evil and the other "in thralldom" to the partner's evil. We must accept the reality they are both evil though likely not equally so.

No adult stays "in thralldom" to evil except by a choice of the will.

Don't make excuses for yourself or for others for staying in close relationship with evil people. Recognize the dynamic of symbiosis that is occurring. Unless an adult is physically being held hostage, that adult has a choice as to whether or not to stay in association with an evil character. Knowing this to be true, do not attempt to "rescue" someone who is dancing in lock-step with a narcissist. They must be avoided along with the narcissist because they are morally compromised. Whether due to laziness, psychological dependence, greed, shared power...adults stay in relationship with evil people because they choose to. They feel they have something to gain by the association. Acknowledge to yourself this reality and live accordingly.”

I believe my dad has been played, groomed, hustled and conned and used as a receptacle to contain and eject MN sister and MN mother's hatred of me. But I also believe he has chosen - despite his conscious awareness of all of their wrongdoing - to stay in collusion with the evil bitches and low-life thug monkey because it makes him feel powerful. Narcissists see kindness and compassion as weakness. So, who who do you think the narcissist is going to team up with at the end of their lives when they themselves are weak, frail and vulnerable? Remember; narcissism is about power and control and superiority and dominating and INTIMIDATING others. There's your answer. A sick, dying, immobile, vulnerable narcissist will choose to surround themselves with bullies, thugs, monkeys and parasitic minions every time. At the end of the narcissists's life, he is as morally degenerated as he will ever be, and as a result feels comfortable and "safe" around fellow moral degenerates. I would go as far to say, the anxiety and fear the narcissist has of impending death may in fact be quelled by surrounding himself with fellow abusers, exploiters, liars and the conscienceless. 

Narcissists don't want to be around "good" people when it comes time to meet their maker because that will make them feel "bad" by comparison; delusions and denial are just a temporary fix - a Band-Aid - to cover the reality of the narcissist's true self and they take a hell of a lot of energy to maintain. So when reality surfaces, what the narcissist needs more than ever is a strong hit of narcissistic supply. The amoral, parasitic lackeys are more than happy to provide it. In the end, the narcissist has only mutually parasitic relationships - they subsist on narc supply that is 100% fake while being picked clean by human vultures.   

I predict my Dad will continue to avoid me because I reflect back to him who he really is. Besides, I'm much more useful to him and his fellow abusers at a distance and as a defenseless scapegoat. I am without excuses for him and will not attempt to “rescue” him. He still has free will. He can pick up the phone and call me. The “choice” is his. Though I doubt I will ever hear from him because narcissists don't like to have their illusions shattered, especially at the end of their lives when they are running scared and working overtime to avoid reality and dodge the demon at the door.   

Dear Narcissists, 

You can't continue dancing with devil and wonder why you end up in hell.

29 comments:

  1. I look back on my old self and cringe. I was so immature for so long. I was careless with nice people. I made friends and coldly dumped them. I was lonely to my core. I did stupid things with men. I had zero sense of self. I didn't know what I liked or who I was or how to live.
    I was so damaged. So so so damaged. I think I'm not as broken as I was but holy crap, what a mess.

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  2. Ah the grooming, for me it was a few thrown crumbs at times. A "nice" card, a present, but it was all illusions to keep me in the hive. I was like a puppy dog running and saying "please love me", I consider that part of the grooming. They string people along with the false hope, you get stuck in the phase of thinking one day, "I will finally achieve [in my case lose weight, etc] and they will love me". Mine grooms with presents and has the whole family in her thrall. A cousin who has trucking school paid for and an aunt who had an entire manufactured home bought for her while I struggle to pay rent, aren't exactly the kind of people who are going to stand up against the narc are they? Spiritually I had no choice but to walk. I even believe the times of abandonment when I was very ill in the ghetto in extreme poverty was a time of grooming to traumatize me and keep me "afraid" deep into adulthood. Now that poverty has been knocking on the door for the past 6 years and worsening recently, I accept what was done to me. Suppose she didn't realize she over-stepped the grooming [aka destruction] process, and if someone goes through hell, it hardens them up a mite bit. I realized near the end the smooth talking never ended, the gifts of notice and smiles even for her pets that were withdrawn whenever she was displeased and they all scrambled in reaction to keep her happy and the rages and cold silences dispensed with. That was my childhood, trained to be the puppy. Silent treatments with me begging my mother, "Are you mad at me?" as she walked in the room from a huff. The Queen training her subjects to always obey.

    DEM, don't be hard on yourself. I am 45 years old learning stuff I should have known in my 20s. I can only point to the Aspergers. I know I took way too much crap. Even today I struggle with people pleasing and worrying that I have offended someone, to the point that while social interactions with close friends are pleasing, other social interactions stress me out. I was able to form an identity but inside I don't know if I will ever be able to not have that feeling of rejection. One thing about Narcs, all this study has told me how the wicked are able to arise to leadership positions and the techniques they used. I always used to wonder in work places why the most cold and mean, were the ones ending up in charge. [This wasn't all bosses but was enough of them] These types do learn to conduct other human beings like orchestras. Lisette, Your sister definitely is controlling your father. At a certain point people like that do choose to be controlled. I think about the control all the family narcs hold over others and it is intense.

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  3. Peep, I never thought of it like that - the systematic destruction is also grooming - but it makes sense. After all, we are raised in N cults and techniques like brainwashing, programming and manipulation etc. are used to control what we think, feel and how we behave. I suppose every child in an N cult is "groomed" a certain way. The description of grooming in the post is more the "luring in" type of grooming that elicits trust and gets the target to drop their guard and keeps them off balance. The predator's actions never match their words. My MN mother never gave me "gifts" or "cards" to try and lure me back in... probably because she is SO cheap. My N dad has used money and cards to try and lure me in, and the money and cards always made me feel bad. Getting a smarmy hallmark greeting card from my dad that says how wonderful I am and how proud he is of me doesn't add up. The "loving" syrupy words don't match-up with his callous indifference towards me. Months, years could go by without speaking to him and he would NEVER ask me something as simple as "whats new?" He has zero interest in my life, or me as a person. So, I always felt his "intentions" behind the money and cards were not genuine. My brother once told me that after he gets a lump of cash from dad, he feels bad. I guess if the "gift"is nothing but a form of manipulation it can't be enjoyed.

    Peep, your N mom sounds like a power hungry, controlling shrew... just like my MN sister. It's perverse that these MNs get off on barking orders and seeing people jump to obey their every command. Even as a young child my sister treated people that way. I have never heard her say "please?" or "may I?" She doesn't ask, she's much too superior for that, she demands and commands - "I want!" "Give me!" "Get me!" Just like a nasty spoiled brat. Yes, they learn to conduct other human beings like orchestras. The thing is, I wouldn't want to associate with someone I can control, I would lose all respect for them. I guess that's a non-issue for the MN, they have no respect for humanity - they feel they are above humanity and that's how they relate to people, from a position of above.

    Apparently my dad is miserable and has said things such as "I feel trapped" "I feel backed into a corner" "They want to control my entire life." No doubt he realizes he has lost his freedom and independence and is under MN sister's control, but I also think he has given up and prefers to endure a prison sentence as opposed to ever admitting he was wrong in handing MN sister limitless power and control.

    The control the family narcs hold IS intense. That's why there's a time limit to a reign of power in so-called "free" countries.... because too much power ultimately corrupts. MN sister is a perfect example of this. No one has ever said no to her in her life and she is a monster.

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    1. Hey Lisette, I posted this today...http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-never-ending-criticism-of-fat-lady.html

      Yes the destruction too is grooming same as the fake make-nice stuff. All about turning us into victims. Just like the man will bring flowers to his beaten wife, so do the narc parents. Yes your post deals more with the type of grooming meant to be a honey-trap. I agree about the actions never matching the words for me, I had the "loving cards" which would directly contradict the mean, gaslighting emails. Sometimes I wonder if that was meant for the sake of her husband, so she would look like a kind mother sending out cards to the mean daughter. Yes I understand why you and brother would feel bad from your father's gifts. Remember the Christmas two minute dump-off of presents for me. The presents meant nothing to me that day. I still have them, everytime I look at my coffeemaker, I have a bad taste in my mouth. Like your father my mother never took interest in my life. She was still mean, nasty and callous, and I believe most of the presents were given for appearances. Even help years ago mostly was probably to keep me from her doorstep. I was offered a big gift the week I went NC you know, talk about directly manipulative, but turned it down. Even the GC wrote, "Mom has so and so waiting for you if you come and pick it up. In my case she literally BUYS people. She didn't leave one relative for me extending her outreach to the ENTIRE family. I think only the cousin who lived thousands of miles away and had a good computer job escaped her influence but she has plenty with his brothers even.

      Yes mine is a power hungry controlling shrew. I remember the day I questioned her in email about her rules of what to talk about at a family gathering and she screamed at me about respect in the email. One thing I have noticed about my sister is unlike my mother who scrounged her way off the farm, my sister doesnt make friends like my mask-wearing parents did, she doesn't even bother with the nice social mask but goes around making enemies. She doesn't say Please, or anything like that. She demands too and criticizes people constantly. Once on the phone I said to her, "Is there anyone you like at your kid's school? Speaking of the parents club. I said why do they all hate you and you don't have one ally? She has always been protected by my mother and husband so never had to work for anything or bother to put on the mask even for social niceties. This may apply to your sister who was so spoiled just like my own. Yes NMs always operate from a position of authority and superiority. My relatives would never believe the things about them that would come out of her mouth.

      So your Dad protests his imprisonment? Kind of late for that. We have some of those types too, who chaffed at their bits somewhat but they always took up for the narcs in the end. He is too proud to admit he was wrong. Hey if my mother takes ill, I'm out of the picture, she will have my sociopathic emotion-less iceberg sister making the health decisions. I suppose some narcs get some comeuppance for what the GCs and narcs they created. In other words he is getting some payback now for the way he treated you.

      I know I am astonished at the control my NM has, even with the ones who have financial independence. It is mind-boggling. I am sure this year she will have another cult meeting around Christmas where they will all go pay homage to her and she will past out the "tribute", gifts. Yes your sister is spoiled just like mine, no one ever said no to mine either nor ever criticized her. The last time I even talked to her on private message I got the willies just even with this indirect communication. My sister's life may get interesting one day should she ever be without protection of other narcs. She doesn't have the social skills or intelligence of the others for survival. Well your father created that monster, and so did my parents.

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    2. So your mother has "bought" herself a little mini-kingdom to control? And made sure to extend her outreach so you will be without any support? They live in fear these narcs. They really expend a lot of energy "destroying the evidence." What kind of life is that, to continually be engaging in a cover-up? I equate it to murdering someone, and getting away with it, but living with the fear that at any moment you could get busted. What a miserable existence these narcs have, always looking over their shoulder and living on the run from the demon at the door. A life like that does not end well.

      "I suppose some narcs get some comeuppance for what the GCs and narcs they created. In other words he is getting some payback now for the way he treated you."

      Yes, I've definitely thought this about N dad's life. I haven't seen him in 7 months but I did speak to him on the phone and his response to me asking to visit him was "I feel like I'm being backed into a corner." Huh? Why would he feel that? Because on top of everything else, MN sister has put him in a double-bind situation where if he sees me he will feel her wrath, if he doesn't see me, he will also face repercussions. She has him isolated so that SHE is the only influence in his life. She is so terrified of losing an inch of control over him, and fears my influence and presence. Why? Because she's up to no good. It's a simple as that. Plus she obtains the "illusion" of control over me by using N dad as her proxy to abuse me.

      My dad's behavior and personality has changed. He is now channeling my MN mother. THAT'S how strong the influence and control MN sister has on him. MN mother filled MN sister with her self, MN sister channels MN mother, now my Dad is channeling what my sister is filled with. It SO bizarre. But it goes to show that these narcs are completely empty inside and have no identity. Now all the family MNs are interchangeable. I read somewhere that one outcome for these narcs is to become depersonalized to the extent that their true alienation from themselves manifests into psychosis and then deteriorates even further, into fragmented multiple personalities. This makes sense, given what I've observed.

      "My sister's life may get interesting one day should she ever be without protection of other narcs. She doesn't have the social skills or intelligence of the others for survival."

      I'm thinking the exact same thing with my MN sister. When my parents go, she may lose her mind. At least I believe that's the directions she's heading in. She's 51 and never worked a day in her life. She is socially retarded and has the mind-set of a child. She hasn't cultivated any relationships and has never had anyone in her life except my divorced parents and a flying monkey. So at this point she is surrounded by narc bullies like herself who she controls, but one day she is going to get a rude awakening. And all the money and property and possessions will be useless to her. External "stuff" cannot buy a person sanity.

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  4. Yes my mother has her own little mini-kingdom, so much work to keep track of it all and all the lies, every extended relative including cousins, second cousins and others I've never met in the net too. She couldn't leave anyone alone for me. They all were indoctrinated into the hive, even the ones from my father's side. I may be going NC with another one, because she constantly mentions my mother to me, and seems afraid of her wrath. I am kind of sick of it all.

    You are strong and brave to deal with your hellish sister and weak father. He choose his corner. I have heard the wimpy "we can't visit or invite you" nonsense because it may make so and so narc mad before. He could defend you and stand up for you but he doesn't. Hey my mother's husband, my step father in a year of my NC could have called on his own or wrote a letter or asked what was wrong but that man has no independent thoughts, he can't even have his own email, because my mother controls him. I wanted to write him when I went NC, but didn't see how it was possible. Isn't that pathetic? That's an interesting theory about the narcs and how they get depersonalized and break down. Mine seem to hold on to their power but they are all copies of one another.

    I can see your sister cracking up. She sounds like my sister in that she has never had to work a day in her life or take care of herself. Mine has the mine set of a child. I always got the feeling with her kids and life, she was playing "house" and doing what "mommy" thought was right, she never formed her own identity and it's kind of frightening. She has a husband who has her on an allowance and I think married her to have a breeder and a maid. Like your sister there are no friends. Money doesn't buy friends or sanity. Even with my sister, she hasn't worked for more then 6 bucks an hour and that was a part time college job she only had a few months, alimony is a thing of the past. The kids will leave home one day, and she seems unconnected with them. Will they want a controlling neat freak around them? She may have one day where she is not protected and Mommy isn't there directing her every step. She is a narc herself but I really believe she is incapable of any independent thought. Your sister already sounds like she is breaking apart. If I showed you a picture of my sister it would shock you. I showed one to a friend from high school and she couldn't believe that was my sister. I said the sister of those years is long gone. She said she looked far far older then us. The dead eyes look like they are from a prison camp not from a suburban house. She is incapable of smiling, her mouth is in a twisted replication of a smile. I used to cry almost seeing what she looked like but now I am kind of resigned, since I wrote all these emails desiring a change, and knowing none would ever be coming. I place the blame at the foot of the Queen Spider but my sister made her choices and so did yours. I may be dirt poor and childless and she lives in a nice house with a 6 figure husband and 4 nice kids, but I wouldn't want to be her. No way!

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    1. I wouldn't want to be my sister either. No way! She is a despicable person cut off from the human race who just uses others. She leads a parasitic existence and hasn't contributed anything to society. Not one single motivation of MN sister is about anyone other than herself. She's what happens when two malignant narcissists breed a pathologically selfish and self-centered clone and then enable that clone to reach beyond the heights of her greed, entitlement, abusiveness and need to control and WIN at all costs. She is the epitome of a malignant narcissist raised in captivity that has never been released into the wild. To say she is weird and off-putting is an understatement. I've seen her once in 25 years, and she doesn't have the dead eyes, she got the CRAZY eyes. Eventually she will be having animated conversations with herself, but lucky for her she won't be homeless because the malignant parents have made sure to give her everything and anything she wants so she never has to worry about taking care of herself - EVER. Ironically, the MN parents spoiling, pampering and babying of her will ultimately be her undoing. She's already showing signs of insanity. I would feel sorry for her pathetic ass, but she is just too dangerous to pity. I'll save my pity for her when she is strapped in a straight jacket and locked in a psych ward.

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    2. You must be nicer than me. I was told recently that my sister was being hospitalized. Turns out she was only in the emergency room for dehydration. She was only there for a couple of hours, With the vagueness I was given of her condition at the time[ most family members are in the medical field and speak the language nonstop and with great authority] I suspected that she was in a mental hospital. And that thought did NOT make me pity her. Not at all.

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  5. not sure if my last comment went through. I made it thru the visit for my daughter's grad, but I feel a future punishment may happen, as there was too many around for MNM to do anything this time and get away with it.
    A question: there are 2 extended family members she despises. Is it possible she sees herself in them? they both have evil N traits

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    1. kagr, I did not receive your last comment. In answer to your question, from what I've observed narcissists don't generally like each other because their bag of tricks don't work on their own kind and they are in constant competition with each other for power and control. BUT, that's not to say that they won't team up to abuse a mutual victim. Narcissists seem to hate each other for all their shared character defects (projection) but then they like to exploit those same defects in one another to harm people. They are bullies jostling for power, that need other bullies to enable their abuse.

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  6. I don't know if this qualifies as predatory behavior, but it is a perfect example of how they like to keep everything in an uproar. One of my "favorite" things that my mother did to try and break my wife and I up was to tell my wife to give me the message that if I wanted to have an affair with a woman, that I could carry on at her house and she wouldn't tell her (my wife) about it. I. Am. Not. Making. This. Up. Think about it. She is telling the person that shouldn't be told that she would keep her in the dark if I brought a woman to her house for the purpose of having sex behind her back. It was such a ludicrous thing to say that she just ended up looking crazy.

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    1. I think they like to "bait" people with juicy tidbits of gossip or information. MN sister tried the same shit with me. For example, out of the blue, she told me that my father said something horrible to my brother. I asked what he said, and she said, "Oh, I can't repeat it because I promised brother I wouldn't tell." Same, but different. I didn't bite because I knew she felt "powerful" holding what she hoped would be intriguing information to me. I immediately dropped it. My response was, that's his business. I don't want or need to know. The thing is, she never should have brought it up in the first place, but she did so to intentionally lure me into a situation where she was in the power position. MN sister was already juggling my dad and my brother and she wanted to add me to the mix of her childish game of control and dangling of "secrets."

      These narcs are pathetic. They will use whatever they can at their disposal to manipulate and mess with others. They rely on secrecy, and if all their chess pieces started to compare notes they would be truly fucked.

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    2. Yes, yes, yes. I've come up with a little mantra: "If you don't need, they cannot feed." When one of them has managed to somehow weasel into my head I just ask myself what is the one thing I keep hoping they will give me that they never have and never will. Immediately I let go of that hope and that need. I end up calmer and they end up scratching their head and wondering, like the screwed-up shmucks they are, "What HAPPENED? This bait usually WORKS."

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    3. "If you don't need, they cannot feed."

      That's great! You should put that slogan on a T shirt and wear it to the next N family gathering... That is if you're still in contact with those screwed-up shmucks.

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    4. If someone tries to pass on gossip to me, I become very judgemental, I narrow my eyes and tell them, "I don't listen to gossip." People who pass on gossip will talk about you behind your back too. If something tries to bs me I go with the flame thrower approach, the full bad cop routine so they get caught off balance and out comes the guilty agenda like a bear on laxatives . I then ease off with the good cop approach. This can be a bit shocking to watch but it works like a charm.

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  7. In my case it shows how hell bent my mother was in causing mayhem around her. To this day I can't tell you if she was so intent on starting a row that she didn't think things through. Or that she was willing to look like a loon on the outside chance that someone would get into an argument now, and think it through later. She was notorious for dragging out the family picture album and peppering it before hand with pictures of whatever ex/boyfriend or ex/girlfriend would set off whatever spouse was in attendance. Which pretty well answers my question. I just can't imagine that somebody that concerned with keeping up appearances would stoop that low. But she always had that "I haven't a clue what you are talking about" ace up her sleeve if it came up and bit her on the ass later.

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  8. Lisette, I have bad memories of NM and my sister "ganging" up on me and heaping abuse. NM has always pitted us against each other, it took a LONG time for me to fully realize this was happening. Sister has unfortunate Narc traits :(
    I contacted one of my brothers in the winter, and told him I believe our M is narcissistic. He has always been a great supporter of mine, and has encouraged me to leave my Narc husband. I don't think he understands narcissism though. He has not contacted me in months, and said that "I don't know what to say about that" ie. narc mom. I feel invalidated, he grew up in the same crazy house.

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    1. Kagr, I just went through that with my brother. He was very supportive of me also, but he is not accepting narcissism in our mother. She won't even see him, or talk to him and slanders him to anyone who will listen. She can't feed off of him that's why she doesn't like him. I told him about our other brother's funeral and mothers behaviour (she was smirking) and he said that is normal. So everything is normal even though he knows all this stuff. I tried to explain that she has no heart, and he said no, mother is mother and must be accepted for who she is.

      What the hell is it about narcs that they get away with the bullshit.

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  9. Kagr........without excusing your brothers lackadaisical dismissal of you and your feelings. N mothers have a Svengali effect over their sons. My mother did nothing but lie to me, and knife me in the back, and it took me over fifty years to hone in on what a horrible person she is/was.

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  10. My brother is the youngest and the only son and he had a different mother than me. MN sister had a different mother than me. I got the vicious and cruel evil mother. I never expected any understanding or support from my siblings. Kids can grow-up in the same house and all have different parents.

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  11. How sad that we cannot have the support of our siblings. Everyone is fine and dandy until she decides to turn her glare and rage and backstabbing comments on them. THEN it's a different story!

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  12. I have been reading about this cluster B stuff for a couple of years now. Lisette and Peep you both are the first people who are exactly telling my story. I had this page up and my husband thought that I wrote it! The mini kingdom, the money, the evil sister the extended family second cousins and all turned against me ~ my story exactly. Even my N (non malignant) father (who divorced her forty years ago) family thinks I am mean and etc.... His opinions have been controlled by my sister who has been courting him and she is finally exacting her revenge on him under the guidance of my mother with the help of my step mother. After seeing the movie Jaws and hearing the line that the shark's eyes were like a doll's eyes I have always equated those eyes to my sister. They are dead (not crazy). I think my mother is histrionic/sociopathic though and so subtle that I just started to see the malignancy in the last couple of years as well as the intentional nature of her actions. I had always tried to cut her slack and thought that she just made mistakes or misinterpreted things. Boy was I wrong. She has been trying to destroy me for almost twenty years now and has almost done just that. Do you think that a malignant histrionic can have the same fait accompli as a MN?

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    1. I think a malignant cluster B, sociopath etc. is the same thing as a malignant narcissist.

      What you wrote about your sister courting your father and exacting her revenge on him under the guidance of your mother is what I am witnessing my MN sister and MN mother do to my dad. You make a good point by saying they are "exacting revenge." That's precisely what they are doing. My MN mother and MN sister have bonded over a mutual hatred of my dad their entire lives, and that hatred just didn't suddenly evaporate. They aren't helping a weak, frail old man, they are destroying him. He is nothing but feed to those malignant narcissist psychos. They don't fool me.

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  13. I was groomed. I was babied. I was never allowed to find myself. I was taught the world was scary. This was all for MN mother and getting supply.

    I've been feeling sick all day about that. It felt like someone dumped a pile of manure on my head and I have no water and had to sit like that. That's how it felt all day. I was blamed for the infantilization by others, but I was threatened into it. It wasn't a choice. I was a child. How come people saw that but didn't see the constant feeding on my pain. Kept dependent so I could be ridiculed at her will. That was why I couldn't go anywhere alone. What if she needed a feeding.

    Tomorrow it is all about self care for me. I'll still be feeling my feelings but I need to take care of my needs now. I haven't been eating much since my awakening almost 2 weeks now. My old comfort foods are tarnished for me forever. Nothing has been the same. I'm starting my day by taking a bath, and then making a nice breakfast. I have a movie to watch after that. My husband has been a little put off by this. I can't seem to get him to understand. And, he wants it fixed. He can't fix it for me. He can't possibly comprehend what is going on with me.

    Mother doesn't like him, because she can't feed off of him. He will roll over her. He doesn't understand narcissism but he just thinks she is crazy, and tells her so.

    Last I heard mother is volunteering for the Heart and Stroke Foundation. Apparently, they can't do without her, everyone needs her and her advice. She is the best thing that has happened for them. That's just too funny.

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    1. Joan S, you're in shock. I bet everyone has to work through that when we realise that whatever was said or done is never for our own benefit but for our N parent/s' instead. My mother fed off pain and negativity in my life - easy supply since I am mildly disabled and she could act the longsuffering martyr at my expense very convincingly. I felt so abnormal and damaged with comments like "you've got no friends... that's because you've got something wrong with your brain".

      The last time I saw her I think I got such a hostile reaction - thinly disguised via crocodile tears - was that she saw I no longer needed her any more and she hated that. Thankfully great distance means she will never be turning up at my house ever again (too much time and money to pay for a "chat").

      Take each day lived separately from her as a new day and a new achievement. Truth and knowledge is POWER. SHE is the problem, NOT you. You will realise that all her lies and attacks were to keep you powerless and that you are not to blame for what she has put you through. It is great your husband already stands up to her.

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    2. That's how heartless these creeps are. Take advantage of you because she can because you are mildly disabled. It still shocks me how heartless these creeps are. I'm so glad you got away from her. Its surprises me how cheap they can be. My mother steals cutlery everytime she gets admitted into the hospital.

      I'm gaining a lot of knowledge now. And yes, she can call me too if she wants to, its just that my husband might answer the phone. So she don't want to do that. lol He made her angry when he disagreed with her on the way he stacked the woodpile. She said she could tell him how it is done. He said he did it right. Oh no, I saw it coming. The end came shortly after that. But she was in the wrong, he was ok with her opinions, however it was his woodpile. But she started picking on him that ended in a big fight.

      It is not a normal person he is standing up to. He doesn't understand what the hell happened. Calling her crazy, omg, I went and hid in the house.

      But, yeah I am in shock. Realizing my mother never loved me came as one hell of a blow. I always thought she did love me, just in her own way. Mothers are supposed to be good to us and give us love and direction in life. Mine gave me PTSD. I am also shocked that there are women out there just like me, many women. While I'm glad to have the support of all the blogs, I feel so hurt by this thing called narcissism that has affected so many lives. And while I had a father for a short time, and sister and brothers, Lisette didn't have anybody. When I was little my mother was beating me because of no reason really(she just got mad) my brother stood over her trying to calm her down. We may have been a role playing family but no one else was narcissistic.

      And there was the time my sister tried to get my mother to start talking to me again (silent treatment).
      But Lisette didn't have that. And that is so hard for me to take.

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  14. Two year's on from leaving my nars I am becoming more crazy and more angry. Although my insight seems to have grown.

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  15. Happens to me too Earl. Some days are better than others; but I think I am gradually climbing up the hill.

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  16. It's natural to become angry during No Contact. Memories are surfacing and being processed in a new light - with the knowledge of NPD. That can be rough. For example, knowing the pain they caused was deliberate. Sometimes you'll want immediate relief and want to lash out directly at the Narcissists. Just remember that's N supply, it's attention and it's what they crave - knowing they are having an effect on you.

    Anger is energy and it needs to be released because if you let it build and build it will eventually come out sideways, or you will turn it inward and that can make you susceptible to self-destructive act, self-medicating etc. It's about self-care and being gentle on yourself. Also know you are not alone and talk it out. For me, talking about it with an understanding friend brings me the greatest relief. And, when all else fails, I just post their nasty ass face on my blog for all to see.

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